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Noisy Eichler roof

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Joined: Apr 5 2004

We live in an Eichler in Thousand Oaks, which was built in 64. We bought it from the original owner in 2004 and had a new roof put on before we moved in. We put in a Unico air conditioning system, the ducts were surrounded by foam and then we did a comp asphalt shingle roof to match the original one. Here's my question: Every night and morning, our roof creaks and crackles and groans -- LOUDLY. My husband says it's due to the tongue & groove ceiling and the expansion and contraction as the outside temp rises and cools down. He says all Eichlers with these ceilings do this, but I'm curious to know if he is right. I haven't heard anyone else complain of this -- anyone out there have the same experience?
Jennifer

JenFreud

Tod
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Joined: Mar 21 2003

Our house does that too. But mostly on the cool down (evening). And a lot less since we put in several inches of closed cell foam insulation on the roof.

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Joined: Apr 5 2004

Thanks -- at least there is one other house that does it! (And, now that you mention it, ours is most significant in the evening, as well. Makes me wish for a few rainy days, so we can have some peace and quiet... :)

JenFreud

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Joined: Apr 5 2003

Our house does it, and I think it only started after we painted the ceilings. (We repainted to repair some water staining when rain hit halfway through a reroofing.) My suspicion is that the paint causes the boards to stick together a bit more, causing more noise as the boards expand and contract.

Robert

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Joined: Apr 5 2004

Robert, that is very interesting... When we bought this house 5 years ago, all the ceilings had been painted white. We stripped most of them, but left a bathroom and 3 bedrooms white. I'll have to listen and see if the creaking is louder in those places than in others. Thanks for the input/

JenFreud

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Joined: Mar 20 2003

the roof isn't vented properly. that's expansion and contraction you are hearing. consider having a conversation with your roofer or a roofer who understands venting and your roof. I am sure one of the preferred vendors from your region on this site or in CA Modern magazine can help you.

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Joined: Apr 5 2003

Okay, I'll bite.

So how do I vent a flat roof that's tongue-and-groove boards overlaid with sprayed foam insulation?

Robert

Joined: Apr 20 2006

It's easier than you might think.

Just open a door or window

...(Eichlers have no attic space) Joe must be messin' with ya

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Joined: Dec 20 2004

As Randy knows, a well installed foam roof will have short vent pipes with caps going through the foam. I don't hear any creaking and I have a few of those that Durafoam installed when they put in the foam roof. You should talk to your roofer as most of my roof is caulked and painted.

Since I live in Sunnyvale there are not great temperature changes suddenly like if you lived in an area where the fog came in quickly.

-- Ralph

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Joined: Aug 30 2003

Jennifer, my Eichler with an SPF roof (sprayed polyurethane foam) does the same thing. I notice it most in the very early morning hours. However, it sounds like you only have SPF where the ducting is located: or is your entire roof surface covered with SPF?

Others have posted that foam roofs should not do that, and won't do it if they are "vented properly". I do not understand this comment. An SPF roof is adhered directly to the surface of the tongue-in-groove boards. There is no dead air space to "vent".

Duro-Last roofs, with rigid foam panels beneath the roof fabric and above the tongue-in-groove, most definitely need to be vented because there is a lot of dead air space. (By the way, some homeowners with Duro-Last roofs report that they are very noisy when it rains: the dead space acts like an echo chamber. SPF roofs do not have that problem.)

So to avoid confusion, let's be clear about what type of "foam" roof is being referenced when "venting" is recommended.

And I think that the noise Jennifer describes is probably present to some degree in tongue-in-groove roofs: it's simply the expansion and contraction with temperature changes.

Barry

1959 A. Quincy Jones atrium model in The Highlands, San Mateo http://www.totheweb.com/eichler

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Joined: Apr 5 2003

[Mostly posting this so Eichler newbies don't start worrying that their sprayed foam roof doesn't have vents.)

Considering the past comments, I find it strange that of the three sprayed foam roofers that I had come out to give quotes on recoating my roof, none (including Dura-Foam) made any mention about vent pipes, and I see no such pipes on any houses in my neighborhood. Each made their complaints about how they would have done the original job, but I never heard a peep about vents.

I'd love to see any mention of vent pipes on sprayed foam roofs.
Robert

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Joined: Aug 30 2003

Robert, I agree. There is no need to "vent" an SPF roof. In fact, it can't be vented because there is no dead air space.

I think there has been some confusion about what a "foam" roof is. Perhaps those who said a foam roof should be "vented" were referring to a Duro-Last roofs with rigid foam panels. Those roofs can be vented. However, if when they are applied all old roofing material is removed so that the tongue-in-groove roof boards are fully exposed, venting hardly seems necessary. There are plenty of gaps between the boards that air can pass through.

Best regards,

Barry

1959 A. Quincy Jones atrium model in The Highlands, San Mateo http://www.totheweb.com/eichler

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Joined: Jan 10 2008

I've seen many SPF roofs in commercial applications and have never seen them vented. Same goes for residential.

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Joined: Dec 20 2004

Let's start with I'm not a roofer but can only describe what is on my roof: the old tar and gravel roofing still on my roof minus the gravel, about 2 layers worth, a thin layer and then the foam is sprayed on.
I know this because I had the someone cut open the roof when re-opening the Atrium. Have a look:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ralph_g/2557066831/in/set-72157600668553948/
Also if you look at the Durafoam Website you can find this link:
http://www.dura-foam.com/foam-roof-system/
Which clearly shows a substrate between the tongue-in-groove and the foam roof. Maybe other roofers don't do it that way. But what is the right way would be a question for someone else. As an engineer I could see the benefits of having some kind of substrate and venting since you are connecting two dissimilar materials.
When the person who foamed my roof originally 20 years ago (he held the foam sprayer) came back to foam my roof after some construction he told me the little pipes sticking up with caps were vents (not to be confused with the sewer/drain vent pipes which are higher without caps.) Since he put on my roof I think I believe him and one of these days I'll get out of my armchair and take some pictures for you all but don't get your hopes up :-)

-- Ralph

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Joined: Jun 29 2011

jenfreud, I just bought a Eichler in the thousand oaks area. Im thinking of upgrading to the Unico air system as well. Would you recommend your installer and if so can you get me their contact info? Does the house stay cool or is the system not really worth the money??

Thanks,
taconugget

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Joined: Aug 24 2012

We moved into our Eichler home in November. The noise made by the roof is driving me crazy and we have no idea what is causing it. The noise begins in the morning and slows down during the day only to start up again in the early evening. We were told by the home inspector that the tar and gravel roof has a life of only 5 to 7 more years.

We moved here from another flat roof home only seven years younger than our Eichler. We lived there for 37 years and never had a problem with the noisy cracking sound that we have here. The old home had a tar and gravel roof and we replaced it a few years ago with a foam roof. Never had a problem with either roof.

In addition to the noise from the roof there are often other strange noises in the walls as well as outside the master bedroom sliding glass door. Sometimes I think that there is someone or something there but there never is. We don't know what is going on. 

Does anyone have a good idea because we don't want to sell our home and neither do I want to walk around with ear plugs. My husband is rather deaf so he dosn't hear what I hear. HELP!

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